excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 8:35:43 GMT
I think the number of beds should be decided by a statistician, supplied with past demand figures, not by doctors or politicians.
I'm not impressed by opinion pieces by the way, whoever they come from, unless they are backed up with hard evidence.
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Post by aubrey on Sept 30, 2017 8:43:55 GMT
Exco, that link of Jean's is not an opinion piece; it's pretty much all evidence.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 8:57:34 GMT
Exco never reads anything he suspects is not going to feed his prejudices, aubrey.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 9:17:14 GMT
I understood it to be written a priori making it all opinion. Had it been written a posteriori, evidence might have been available.
I don't see it changes my position. I am not a fan of PFI, but will happily see it used when it's the only way of getting schools and hospitals built.
I don't understand why Jean can't accept that and drop the matter.
Sounds like the good professor has the same view as mine anyway.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 11:30:59 GMT
No she doesn't, exco. She's referring to the Labour government's decree that PFI is to be the 'only method of financig' capital expenditure in the NHS.
As to my 'accepting' your view and 'dropping the matter', you are not (quite yet) the only poster on this board.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 13:10:45 GMT
The point being made was that it was politically impossible to get these much-needed facilities built without PFI.
We've had decades to do it directly, under a variety of governments an IT HASN'T HAPPENED. It is therefore, in practice, as near impossible as makes no difference.
Under such circumstances, what do you do? Nothing? Or do you take advantage of a trick to get them built and hang the coat.
It depends on whether you put people before cost, something I am more than happy to do. You, however, continue to obsess about the expense. Why, I have no idea. There is nothing to stop any government either paying up like gents or reviewing whether the contractors are making unreasonable profits and reducing the payments.
I suggest you stop talking up this problem, particularly as it is being used as an excuse for this government's underfunding and as an attempt to blame Labour for the desperate state this underfunding has reduced the NHS to.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 13:32:12 GMT
The point being made was that it was politically impossible to get these much-needed facilities built without PFI. No, exco. The point the writers made was that the government had made a decision that that should be the case. They then concerned themselves with the results of that decision. If you seriously think that every government takes every decision it takes because it is 'politically impossible' to do otherwise, it follows that you must meekly accept all those decisions the Tories make, too. But while on the one hand you argue that it's impossible to get new schools and hospitals without PFI, on the other you argue the opposite - that any government could easily raise taxes to cover the agreed payments, or simply stop paying. Or of course just print money.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 13:33:59 GMT
You...continue to obsess about the expense. Why, I have no idea... I've been listening to Jeremy, exco. You should do the same.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 13:36:28 GMT
You should stop telling people what they should do.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 15:21:36 GMT
Whether you listen to Jeremy on my advice or for some other reason matters not, exco.
I know that you know in your heart that listening to Jeremy is the right thing to do.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 15:31:18 GMT
As ever, you know wrong.
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Post by aubrey on Sept 30, 2017 16:08:16 GMT
You usually do listen to him, though.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 16:17:30 GMT
Strange, isn't it? The one topic where Jeremy's absolutely spot on and exco won't listen!
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Sept 30, 2017 16:30:15 GMT
I usually manage to make up my own mind thanks. And I don't need your advice as to who I should listen to anyway.
Perhaps you should try not treating people like third formers. Most adults find it rather tedious.
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jean
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Post by jean on Sept 30, 2017 16:32:15 GMT
(He's upset now.)
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