Exploding the Myth

[Daz Madrigal]

After yesterdays events which will probably become a common occurence there were 2 'concise' points that should be made.

1) as one pundit suggested for every 20 extremists captured there are 20,000 in this country alone willing to take their place.

2) There are two explanation for the terrorism here.

a) Blair & Bush are keen on peddling the line that Islam wants to take over the World but all evidence points to the view that its reached a height purely because of the attacks on Iraq and support of Israel. This is given somewhat unlikely credence in the unusual form of Left Wing Trotskyite Chris Hitchens who blames the the Clinton administration for the rise of Al Qeada and points to 9/11 as being completely unprovoked. As a self proclaimed expert on the Middle East (Hitchens worked with George Galloway in an organisation specifically designed to keep an eye on Saddam Hussein - the irony being that this was at a time when they were being 'supported' by the Americans).

So you can see these are very muddy waters indeed because since then theyve all performed a political version of musical chairs and completely changed their opinions from one extrem to another..in fact theyre all of the place.

b) The other view (which I'd be more willing to accept) is that the everyday Muslim has no inclination to 'take over the World'. Its merely empty rhetoric from a few Muslim leaders angry about the pro-Israeli and anti-Islamic tendencies of the West.

In essence, and it backed up by research and interrogation of terrorists and potential terrorists they are willing to blow up tube trains, buses, planes etc purely as RETALIATION against Bush and Blairs attack on Iraq and support for Israel.

So why should Hitchens be so anti-Islam and pro-Bush?

I think the secret lies in Hitchens strict atheist tendencies. He's anti any religion whatsoever and that is entwined with his Trotskyite tendencies. His argument is that Al Queda are intent on taking over the World by any means possible and that Islamic extremist terrorist organistation should have been completely wiped out at the first opportunity. Therefore he blames Clinton for doing relatively little and whilst promoting Bush and Blair lets them off the hook of any criticism by merely replying that they were left a poison chalice by appeasers so its not their fault at all.

[sandywinder]

There is terrorism here for several reasons.

1. They have some justification for the way the West has treated Muslims in their home lands, Iraq and Aghanistan and sided with Israel over Palestine and Lebanon.

I doubt anyone would argue with that.

2. There are so many Muslims in this country that the risk is very high that there are more than enough of them willing to kill as many British people as possible (even if many of the victims happen to be Muslims).

3. Governments in Britain have shown through their own weakness (at home if not abroad) that they will tolerate almost anything that extreme Muslims will throw at them. Marches with offensive banners, inflammatory speeches - you name it.

[Daz Madrigal]

Yes but I'm talking about the planning and the organising of definite terrorism with horrific consequences rather than a few demonstrations and to go to those lengths and to have a definite political/religious organisation planning is predicated on the fact that its in revenge.

In other words they're quite happy to blow themselves up because they have seen relatives and fellow Muslims die similarly in Iraq and elsewhere.

Thats why the Govt INSIST time and time again that the terrorism has 'absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq War because that gets THEM off the hook and thats all they're interested in. Therefore they're giving out what is effectively propaganda by suggesting that this 'evil' wants to take over our free democratic lands blah blah..usual Bush rhetoric and that just isn't the case. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell of even the UK let alone the USA being turned into an Islamic Republic. Its nonsense.

[sandywinder]

madrigalman said:

Yes but I'm talking about the planning and the organising of definite terrorism with horrific consequences rather than a few demonstrations and to go to those lengths and to have a definite political/religious organisation planning is predicated on the fact that its in revenge.

In other words they're quite happy to blow themselves up because they have seen relatives and fellow Muslims die similarly in Iraq and elsewhere.

Thats why the Govt INSIST time and time again that the terrorism has 'absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq War because that gets THEM off the hook and thats all they're interested in. Therefore they're giving out what is effectively propaganda by suggesting that this 'evil' wants to take over our free democratic lands blah blah..usual Bush rhetoric and that just isn't the case. There isn't a snowballs chance in hell of even the UK let alone the USA being turned into an Islamic Republic. Its nonsense.

Patience Daz. Wait a hundred years and see if Britain is stiill a Christian Democracy.

It must be perfectly obvious to everybody that British and American policy in the Middle East has made matters worse. Anybody who does not must be living in cloud-cuckoo land.

But before Afghanisation and before both Iraq wars political terrorists were around. They were around at the Munich games when many Israelis were killed. No matter what America and UK do they will never stop terrorism. They should realise this now rather than living in the same denial that they have done for so many wasted years. And to do this they have to put right the wrongs of Palestine. Exactly how they do this is not easy, but it is the only solution. Everything to do with Muslim hatred goes back to that source.

[Daz Madrigal]

Most liberal thinkers would say the idea that we'd have become an Islamic country within a hundred years as typical Daily Mail scaremongering but its certainly more than a possibility. I dont think its a calculated scheme to promote Islam though but mere force of numbers and a growing religion.

Most people are more concerned with the here and now and then maybe that stretches to children to some extent but you can't hold back the tide of sheer numbers. If Islam is a growing religion and Christianity is a diminished one then there isn't anything you can do about it. But its obviously worrying most of the people on JSG because they're already if not joining then tacitly supporting right-wing organisations such as the BNP.

All kinds of things can happen in a few centuries and most of them are the precise opposite of what experts predict will happen. If we were to believe experts we'd be living in extreme temperatures due to GW whilst being told what to do - according to your somewhat negative view - by a mixture of Mad Mullahs and a European Beuracracy made up primarily of Germans. It doesnt necessarily mean that its going to turn out that way.

You can only talk with any authority about whats happening 'now' and the reason Fundamentalists fly planes into New York Towers and blow up the transport system is NOT to do with an attempt to usurp with World and force it to bend to the will of Islam but is merely revenge for perceived wrongs. And when people from the same country see their fellow inhabitants killed in thousands they react in the same way we would if the same occurred here. We'd equally become fanatical about fighting back in any way possible.

Thats the way its always been throughout history. If you wake up one morning to find your entire family and friends murdered by a different culture then you aren't going to take the christian attitude of forgiving them, you're going to want revenge. Even moreso if you've got nothing to lose!

But then theres equal blame on the liberality that has taken over here. That was the point I tried to make to Dee in that if you play the nice do-gooder card of shrugging your shoulders and saying..'well ok you can have your own schools and we'll build mosques and you've got freedom of speech so you can listen to anti-western sermons then you are playing into their hands and making the situation worse but no-one DARE tell the truth because the country is suffused with political correctness and people petrified of being accused as racist.

What then happens is the the points previously raised by Norman Tebbit 20 yrs ago and Michael Howard 5 yrs ago that were denounced as disgusting examples of Racism and in a complete U-turn the very laws that this Glaswegian left wing bloke is now desperately trying to implement. Several years too late! Where was John Reid several years ago? He was precisely the type of bloke rubbishing the very policies he is now upholding, which is par for the course for this Govt who merely use gesture politics in any attempt to hang onto power.

Now doesnt that suggest that in fact Tebbit, Howard, Widecombe and all these figures of liberal ridicule have been proved right after all.

The trouble is your going to agree with all that. What I need now is some lily livered Guardianista to tottle on here and try to disprove it. But they won't of course because they know they have no defence and if they offer one it'll be like a leaky colandar.

[Daz Madrigal]

Fortunately theres no chance of the US being turned into a Muslim Republic ruled by Shariah Law



Although sometimes it seems like a good idea.


Nation of Retards
[Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it]

The U.S. government has used the 9/11 attacks to defend every stupid criminal thing to come out of Washington for five long terrible years, but a shocking new study shows a significant number of Americans don't even know when the attacks happened.

Nearly a third of Americans don't know (or don't remember) that hijacked jetliners smashed into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field in 2001.

According to the new Washington Post poll, 30% of those surveyed couldn't come up with the year of the event.

About half of them picked a wrong year, while 16% of America's finest citizens "had no idea."

Almost all of those who didn't know when 9/11 happened were over 55, with 48% between 55 and 64 and the other 47% being 65 and older.

In other words, the nation's most reliable voters are so stupid or senile that they've got absolutely no idea what's going on around them and can't remember the most pivotal event of this century, which happened only five years ago.

For this nation of retards, pollsters were happy to find 95% of Americans at least remembered the "September 11" part. The other 5% somehow manage to maintain telephone service and even know how to answer a ringing phone, but have no knowledge of the month or date of the most notorious event in recent history.

The grim study confirms what many other polls have long shown: Americans are, at best, drooling imbeciles who can't find Iraq on a map, have no memory of Watergate and believe fictional characters on TV are real people.

Retard is an american slang term used very often.

Education standards are now so low in America that the children have to take lessons on the best way to sit on chairs.

[sandywinder]

;D


The American Indians welcomed the white men in general and looked what happened to them.

I can just imagine some young brave talking to his parents and saying 'We're Doomed. ALL DOOMED' in that Private Fraser way and the betters replying, ' These Europeans are generally good people. We can't be 100% sure of what will happen in the next fifty years so we had better just accept them'.

Why should it be any different here? Two completely different cultures and religions. Such people like this have never lived side by side for very long without trouble spouting up. It happened in ex-Yugoslavia. It happened here when the Normans took over. It will happen here in the future. The only question is when and who will win out.

You can integrate a limited number of immigrants with no problem. It is when the numbers grow too big that trouble inevitably flairs up.

[purple joggers]

If people were equal or treated equal, or perhaps believed they were equal or treated equal, both economically and culturally, there wouldn't be half these problems. The reasons like religion (Northern Island, Middle East, Al Quaida,Chechenia, Bosnia) or local nationalism (Basque countries, Corsica, Northern Ireland, Chechenia, Tibet) wouldn't attract so many followers if there was more equality and fairness.

In many if not all cases, these religious and nationalistic beliefs provide the simple, socially-underprivileged with a more tangible reason for their cause, not necessarily the true reason for their dissatisfaction. Those in command (and I mean societies as much as governments) don't or don't want to, recognise this because it would mean relinquishing some of their power, control and wealth.

The media and the politicians think it all has to do with politics in its purest sense, which it may do at the higher ideological levels, but at the grassroots the reasons and problems are much simpler, if not so simple to solve. But since the politicians don't solve basically the same problems in their own countries, what can you expect?

[sandywinder]

The problem is that people will never be treated equally. Some may want to be but others expect to be treated better than others do. It is just plain common or garden greed and selfishness. And there will always be someone around to stir people up whether it be politicians, religious leaders or just the bloke in the pub.

It is one thing to treat people equally and a whole new ball game to try to make everybody equal. This has been tried many a time but it never works. Probably because people are not equal nir ever will be.

So you could have two twins each having the same opportunities as the other, and one could be a succesful business man while the other is an unemployable alcoholic.

[Daz Madrigal]

Yes its an idealistic notion similar to the one put forward that if we spend billions of £'s building race tracks and amusements for 'bored' criminals the Crime rate will be reduced.

Its okay if you've read nothing but Alice in Wonderland books but it has little basis in any reality.

btw. on a small note. Its not helped by the promoters of Aid To Africa and equal distribution of Wealth between Nations then leaving the Country to live in some tax haven to avoid losing any of the Billions they have accrued such as Bono.

How he can proselytise to us on what WE should do for Equalitie when he and his cohorts do the precise opposite really does beggars all belief. But not to me, I'm well used to the hypocrisy of the liberal thinker - its typical deception, waffle and sleight of hand.

LIBERAL = USELESS PANDERING AND DECEIT.