everso
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Post by everso on Jun 20, 2011 17:02:40 GMT
I agree with Sandy to some extent regarding how a woman dresses. If she dresses like a prostitute (and, as Sandy said, they dress like they do for a reason) then some men will be bound to think she's "up for it". This doesn't mean she deserves to be raped, which is something different, but if she receives lots of attention from men and she's not happy about that, then she needs to tone down the way she dresses. Unfortunately, that's the way of the world and we can't stop men from admiring the female form. We just don't expect to be raped as a punishment for dressing in a slutty way.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jun 20, 2011 18:00:13 GMT
I agree with Sandy to some extent regarding how a woman dresses. If she dresses like a prostitute (and, as Sandy said, they dress like they do for a reason) then some men will be bound to think she's "up for it". Everso, as I've said repeatedly on this thread, even a prostitute has the right to decide who she has sex with.the policeman who started all this wasn't chiding women for objecting to male attention if they dressed in the way he identified as 'like sluts' - he was saying they were more likely to be attacked and raped. It was the use of the word slut with all that it implied that the women objected to.
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everso
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On my chaise longue, somewhere in tropical Essex
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Post by everso on Jun 20, 2011 23:52:36 GMT
Everso, as I've said repeatedly on this thread, even a prostitute has the right to decide who she has sex with. Of course she does. A prostitute is, more often than not up for it, but if she decides not to then she doesn't deserve to be raped either. I didn't say otherwise, did I? Prostitutes get attention because of the way they dress - a bit like displaying the goods before the sale. She has the right not to sell, but she can hardly complain if she gets attention.
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sandywinder
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Post by sandywinder on Jun 21, 2011 6:36:01 GMT
Why don't you just look up the words in a dictionary if you don't understand them? But sandy, it's you who have a problem with understanding, not me. The dictionary really does not tell you all you need to know about a word like immoral. All it can do is note as many different shades of meaning of the word as it can. It has to cover every sense of immoral from that of fundamentalist Christians, who think every physical expression of sex outside of marriage is deeply wrong, to - well, to people like you. And of course people like me. We will not all be using the word in the same way. I want to know what you really understand by immoral woman when (like the Canadian policeman) you are judging a woman by what she is wearing. Well do you think that prostitutes are moral or immoral? If you think think that dressing up like a prostitute is moral then why do you or people like you have any problem with a policeman saying that women should not dress like prostitutes or sluts? It seems to me you want it both ways i.e. that dressing like a slut/prostitute is ok but saying that you are dressing like one is bad. Why is it so bad to say so if you think it is OK? Would you get so uptight if someone dressed up like a vicar and somebody said you shouldn't dress up like one? All this is irrelevant anyway because it does not change the fact that men in general see women who dress up like prostitutes as someone they are more likely to be able to have sex with. And that is the whole point, which feminists are so desperately trying to evade.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jun 21, 2011 7:41:42 GMT
[quote author=sandywinder board=general thread=6710 post=106791 time=1308638161Well do you think that prostitutes are moral or immoral?[/quote] I don't make moral judgments about them.
There is no category of women properly called slut that you are entitled to make moral judgments about, certainly not on the basis of what they're wearing.
A woman may indeed be up for sex but you'd have to be a fundamentalist Christian or something to think that was immoral in itself.
So we are best not using the word at all. Personally, I've always had doubts about these women trying to 'reclaim' it, as the facts of the case are so difficult to get into the heads of people like you, sandy.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jun 21, 2011 7:52:22 GMT
Prostitutes get attention because of the way they dress - a bit like displaying the goods before the sale. She has the right not to sell, but she can hardly complain if she gets attention. That's all perfectly true - but it is not only attention that's being complained about. And we don't need to bring in the moral judgment implied by the word slut to make the point.
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Post by aubrey on Jun 21, 2011 11:05:01 GMT
How do prostitutes and sex workers dress? Most dress like everyone else. Here is how one of them dresses:
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Post by aubrey on Jun 21, 2011 11:11:37 GMT
Here are some more: What is meant by Dressing like a prostitute is really Dressing like someone's idea of a prostitute. Some prostitutes dress like that, but a hell of a lot don't. And again: most women who are raped are not dressed like that anyway. The slut walk thing was specifically designed to allow anyone to participate, however they were dressed, whoever they were: to make the point that anyone can be raped. Would a woman who is raped when walking home late at night be thought that have put herself in a dangerous situation? Like leaving the back door open?
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sandywinder
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Post by sandywinder on Jun 23, 2011 9:24:57 GMT
How do prostitutes and sex workers dress? Most dress like everyone else. Here is how one of them dresses: Do you really think that Aubrey? We know it is your custom to use one example and then claim that most (or even all) must therefore follow the same example but you are not fooling anybody. I doubt you are even fooling yourself. And again: most women who are raped are not dressed like that anyway.But how many women dress like that compared to the number of women who don't? More people die in car accidents than going over Niagara Falls in a barrel but does it make it any safer to go over the Niagara Falls in a barrel? And how do you know how many prostitutes are raped? It is not as if they are going to go to the police and complain, is it? Even if they are injured in the process.
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Post by aubrey on Jun 23, 2011 10:07:36 GMT
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Post by aubrey on Jun 23, 2011 10:17:26 GMT
The thing is, Sandy: you will only recognise someone as a prostitute if they are dressed like your idea of a prostitute. You will see many prostitutes in the course of your day without realising it, because they are not dressed as you think a prostitute should dress.
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