excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 16, 2018 9:44:25 GMT
Cranes still seem to be moving there. I have no idea how long they'll keep doing so, but for the moment, at least something is happening there.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jan 16, 2018 10:30:21 GMT
At least something is happening. That should not be the best you can say about this star example of PFI, the only possible model (according to you) for the provision of schools and hospitals.
You like to say the Sheffield tree fiasco was just one bad deal. But they keep coming, one way and another.
As for the great justification of transferring all the risk to the private sector, how do you think that's going to play out now?
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 16, 2018 11:28:03 GMT
You and I don't know how bad or good a deal this will turn out to be. I will refrain from comment until this becomes clear. It could be good, with the gov. taking up the cost of completion and reducing the PFI payments on it. I suggest we both wait before applauding or booing.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jan 16, 2018 12:19:07 GMT
...I will refrain from comment... Bit daft to start a thread about it, then. I must point out, though, that if the solution for Liverpool’s hospital turns out to be a ‘good deal’, it’ll only be because it’s not PFI any more. I think we can agree about that.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 16, 2018 13:16:27 GMT
R4 claims there is little work going on there at the moment. I think the crane I saw moving could well have been the result of the wind...
It can't be THAT far from finished now, surely.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 17, 2018 18:34:44 GMT
I was never happy about it. However, when there is no alternative...
By hook or by crook we will have a new hospital in Liverpool. We would NOT have had it if it had been left to the gove. to finance. I really don't care much about the money. You seem to obsess about that more than enough for both of us.
The other point is that it would have been built by Carillion anyway, which might have gone bust anyway or even a lot sooner, so I can't really see what the point is in your continuing your slagging off of PPI. However, it it cheers you up to do so I suppose its worth it.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jan 17, 2018 18:47:18 GMT
I really don't care much about the money. You would iF you were unfortunate enough to be one of the subcontracted-to who won't get paid.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 18, 2018 9:13:30 GMT
That might have happened with or without any PFI contract being involved. I don't therefore see the point of your comment.
My point is that whether it costs the government a lot more than it should to get a hospital built is a lot less important to me than the fact that it IS built.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jan 18, 2018 9:23:22 GMT
The point that is being made now by many who are more closely involved with the process than you or I is that the whole PFI thing is a 'giant Ponzi scheme' which was always going to fall apart in the end, even if some people did get their schools and hospitals before it happened.
Please read the article and letters I've linked to.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 18, 2018 9:35:01 GMT
Carillion collapsed because it took on too much at too low a price and was badly managed. Nothing to do with PFI.
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jean
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Post by jean on Jan 18, 2018 9:38:54 GMT
Continue to deceive yourself, exco.
The failures that brought down Carillion were inherent in the whole outsourcing system, of which PFI is just (probably) the most egregious example.
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excoriator
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Post by excoriator on Jan 18, 2018 10:43:50 GMT
Outsourcing is distinct from PFI.
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