Ians Chart

[Daz Madrigal]

Dear Ian, you are a Taurus and a very lucky man by the looks of it..you have great good fortune and like the water and riding.



Seriously a few random thoughts first.

The paucity of response for alternative charts proved predictably feeble. In a way it would have been quite good because particularly with James Randi's effort I'd have torn it apart within a few paras.

I've crossed swords with Randi protege several times, many years ago. Editor Dr. Stephen Donnelly and Prof. Gilbert Shapiro both opposed me and as the magazine was called 'The Skeptic' I was heavily outnumbered.

I won the argument not due to evidence (which even I agree is somewhat scant) but more on the reasons of why it is scant and through having an ace card up the sleeve.

Going into any debate without holding a winning hand is foolhardy. As is the Christian on JSG arguing the case for Intelligent Design (although against all odds she is holding up admirably well). Yes even when I have doubts I support the Underdog.

This hasn't got much to do with Astrology. Piccione either didn't or chose not to understand my point about the subtle nuances involved within this unusual occupation.

Lets pass this aside for now. My knowledge of Nuclear Physics is barely existent but then again I don't care to dispute its finer points. Lets make thing perfectly clear...it is by all definition a 'No-Win' situation. Experience tells us that once someone has made up his or her mind there is little to change it. No matter what is written there will always be an element of suspicion. I'd far rather do the charts for Ian's daughters and point out their differences because I have zero knowledge of them.

On my rare forays into online Astrology I have 'always' been successful. In fact I've been lucky. The only real difficulty in reading a chart was Darinkas. Sometimes one chart reels off like a fisherman with a barracuda on the line and - as with music - these are nearly always highly successful and accurate. Others are akin to being 'forced' to write a hit song whilst leaving at the end of the day with a room full of discarded balls of paper angrily thrown in the general direction the rubbish bin.

As most of what is on here is the most basic of delineations - merely 4 elements, its of interest to see that Ian's chart is helped considerably by a fiery Moon in Aries. I think I would have guessed that but with some caution.

The time of birth of Daniel Day Lewis isn't available (as far as I know) despite being the Son of Cecil was it? I'd wager a large amount on him being born equally early and with the Moon in Aries.

Daniel you were born very early in the Morning before the dawn of Day - I know it even if you don't.

[piccione]

/////Going into any debate without holding a winning hand is foolhardy. As is the Christian on JSG arguing the case for Intelligent Design (although against all odds she is holding up admirably well). Yes even when I have doubts I support the Underdog.

This hasn't got much to do with Astrology. Piccione either didn't or chose not to understand my point about the subtle nuances involved within this unusual occupation./////

Awwwwww.....poor ickle misunderstood Christians and Astrologers....

Maybe you didn’t explain yourself very well, since you have the err tendency to ‘make your point’ by ‘spicing’ them with some rather irrelevant 'insider' references to the cheesy board (and its members). By all means, you carry on, but don’t expect /me/ to follow your meaning, because I ain’t got the time or will to read up on ‘cheese board history’.

Here – have a read through this article (not too bad for the Daily Mail).

You might be particularly interested in the para cited below... ;D

www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=451908&in_page_id=1774&in_page_id=1774&expand=true

[Homeopathy is to medicine what astrology is to astronomy: it's witchcraft - totally barmy, totally refuted, and yet it's available on the NHS. For while homeopathic medicine is not toxic, its use as an alternative to conventional medicine can, in fact, cause serious harm.]

Funny, isn’t it, that everyone gets so hyped up about the ‘imperfections’ of scientists/medicine (and many such ‘imperfections they /have/), but charlatans are the ‘misunderstood underdogs’ who can do whatever they like without having to justify themselves. That’s because there ain’t anything they have to justify themselves against (ie scientific facts). How very convenient....

Or is it that charlatans are ‘granted’ the right of inherent ‘immorality’ and are therefore free to exploit people - and hence no-one takes offence at their manipulation, but instead tends to tiptoe around them as if to not ‘spoil their fun’....

Saying that, only those who ‘want’ to be ‘exploited’ will be. Astrology ‘works’ because it plays on the human tendency to subjectively validate information and because it uses the manipulative techniques of cold reading (or /warm/ reading, depending on your outlook) – similar to sales strategies - especially suggestion, flattery and ‘mystery’. This ‘positive-outcome’ bias is bound to hit a nerve with many people. And it’s also human to try and find deeper meanings in situations/phenomena than there actually are.

It’s the ‘placebo effect’ – and that is true for astrology as it is for most homeopathy. Acupuncture for example triggers off the perfectly natural dispense of ‘feel good’ hormones as a physical reaction to coping with pain (induced by the needles). Coupled with the patients /belief/ in its effectiveness, it does /indeed/ have some effect. But that’s only because the patient is fundamentally misguided about /what/ actually causes that effect. If they ‘knew’ (or acknowledged) the /real/ causes, it wouldn’t work, since their /belief/ (or at least lack of disbelieve) is vital for a positive outcome.

And this isn’t /any/ different for religious beliefs.

[sandywinder]

You are quite right Pixie.

Only the other day some bloke in South America was made a saint for prescribing pieces of paper with prayers on them which people ate and 'miracles' occurred as result.

What most people don't seem to realise is that in many cases the reasons for people getting 'better' is the healing power of the body itself. Many hundreds of thousands of years have been put into evolving a human being with immune systems.

Of course medicines help and the possible suggestive powers of the mind to get it to kick in those regenerative systems.


Religion and astrology are both hog wash, unlike the new science of pizzology which has so far been proved to be 100% accurate.

It is now becoming a new cult and the daily rags are replacing yesterday's star charts with pie charts.

I've even been asked to prophesy the futures of Westminster MPs.

One glance at Prescott's pie told me he would have to watch his weight and would soon be able to spend a lot more time with his secretary.

And Blair's chart told me that he would soon be coming into a lot of money and would be doing a lot of travelling.

See if I am wrong.

Truly this is the dawning of the age of Margarita.

[Daz Madrigal]

<< You are quite right Pixie. >>

;D

You little creep!

[Daz Madrigal]

sandywinder said:

You are quite right Pixie.

Only the other day some bloke in South America was made a saint for prescribing pieces of paper with prayers on them which people ate and 'miracles' occurred as result.

What most people don't seem to realise is that in many cases the reasons for people getting 'better' is the healing power of the body itself. Many hundreds of thousands of years have been put into evolving a human being with immune systems.

Of course medicines help and the possible suggestive powers of the mind to get it to kick in those regenerative systems.

Well all thats complete junk.

Mind you they said acupuncture was totally useless which begs the question as to why when my Sis kids were born two women were having needles stuck in their back by Doctors.

Are they mad too?

[Daz Madrigal]

<< You might be particularly interested in the para cited below...

www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=451908&in_page_id=1774&in_page_id =1774&expand=true

[Homeopathy is to medicine what astrology is to astronomy: it's witchcraft - totally barmy, totally refuted, and yet it's available on the NHS. For while homeopathic medicine is not toxic, its use as an alternative to conventional medicine can, in fact, cause serious harm.]

Funny, isn’t it, that everyone gets so hyped up about the ‘imperfections’ of scientists/medicine (and many such ‘imperfections they /have/), but charlatans are the ‘misunderstood underdogs’ who can do whatever they like without having to justify themselves. That’s because there ain’t anything they have to justify themselves against (ie scientific facts). How very convenient.... >>



Well if its in the Mail it MUST be completely biased nonsense written by bigots who dislike bearded hippies like myself.

[Daz Madrigal]

<< Funny, isn’t it, that everyone gets so hyped up about the ‘imperfections’ of scientists/medicine (and many such ‘imperfections they /have/), but charlatans are the ‘misunderstood underdogs’ who can do whatever they like without having to justify themselves. That’s because there ain’t anything they have to justify themselves against (ie scientific facts). How very convenient.... >>

As far as I know Astrologers haven't yet managed to put half the child population on mind numbing drugs or created a bomb capable of destroying the entire world.

You are becoming hysterical - in more ways than one.

[Daz Madrigal]

<< Saying that, only those who ‘want’ to be ‘exploited’ will be. Astrology ‘works’ because it plays on the human tendency to subjectively validate information and because it uses the manipulative techniques of cold reading (or /warm/ reading, depending on your outlook) – similar to sales strategies - especially suggestion, flattery and ‘mystery’. This ‘positive-outcome’ bias is bound to hit a nerve with many people. And it’s also human to try and find deeper meanings in situations/phenomena than there actually are. >>

No, Piccione.

You are talking about Mediums and Claivoyants.

How can you do a 'cold reading' via the phone, post or on the internet for that matter?

[Daz Madrigal]

<< It’s the ‘placebo effect’ – and that is true for astrology as it is for most homeopathy. Acupuncture for example triggers off the perfectly natural dispense of ‘feel good’ hormones as a physical reaction to coping with pain (induced by the needles). Coupled with the patients /belief/ in its effectiveness, it does /indeed/ have some effect. But that’s only because the patient is fundamentally misguided about /what/ actually causes that effect. If they ‘knew’ (or acknowledged) the /real/ causes, it wouldn’t work, since their /belief/ (or at least lack of disbelieve) is vital for a positive outcome. >>

Again its simply evidence of a complete lack of knowledge of the subject. Far from me to suggest that there are a not a substantial amount of soothsayers out there but I don't get too het up about it because on the whole they're harmless. The Royal Astrologer always flatters the King (or Queen). Its understandable if you wish to keep your head attached to the rest of your body although its becoming evident that yours has already left. Maybe the pro-drug stance was more hazardous than previously thought.

Being the bearer of Bad News is hardly a placebo is it..in fact is the precise opposite. Now stop talking tosh and making false assumptions based on a complete absence of knowledge of the subject in hand.

[guy]

madrigalman said:

How can you do a 'cold reading' via the phone, post or on the internet for that matter?

I'm glad you asked Mr Madrigal, after studying your many words I am starting to get some images coming through, they're maybe a little cloudy & unclear, but they will mean more to you than me.

I'm sensing a confident person who, at times, feels a little insecure, especially with strangers. Mostly you are quite positive, but I sense that there were times in the past where you were extreemly upset and possibly even depressed.

You are usually kind and considerate to others, but when you feel betrayed you're not afraid to show your anger. At times there is nothing you like more than being the centre of attention, however there is a quiet and shy side to your nature.

I'm feeling that you sometimes feel unappreciated by friends and family, who take you for granted, and leave you feeling let down. You think about things a lot, and I sense that you believe you haven't yet fulfilled your potential.

Now, from the other side I'm getting a relative, male I think, who had health problems to do with the chest, and someone else who had a nasty accident. I'm being told that when you were young you also had some sort of accident and you spent some time in hospital.

Have a look through that box of old unsorted photos you have, you'll find a picture of a female figure who was around when you were growing up, an aunt, friend of the family maybe - she wants you to know she thinks you've "turned out fine".

That's about all I can get with an internet reading, but it is incredibly accurate as you can tell.

Yours

The Spirit Guy'd

[Daz Madrigal]

;D

It started off uncannilly accurate and then by the end quickly deteriorated but much as I'd love to dismiss the whole thing as complete tripe - and generalised tripe at that (who hasn't had a childhood accident?) it was actually very well thought out. In fact you should sent that to James Randi, Guy.

Sadly for you - but not for them - all my Aunts are alive and kicking and as there are five of them its just tough luck that not one possessed the foreknowledge or sheer common decency to conveniently kick the bucket!

...at least SOMEONE reads my posts!

[kipper]

I always keep an acupuncture kit on the BatBike.

After 5 hours in the Bat Saddle, my chakras are desperate for a touch of regeneration, I can tell you.

[piccione]

////I'd like to personally thank Sandy Winder for his endless time and hard work. Without him and his servile assistant, Piccione I really could not have started upon this epic venture.////

Hmmm.....

John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approach'd the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," -quoth he- "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," -quoth he,-
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," -quoth he,- "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!


Next to my beloved, brave and beautiful mum, it’s my closest friends -my /true/ family- who have /never/ been ‘blind’. /All/ of them needed but their hearts and minds to find the truth - not astrology, nor religion, nor indeed any other ‘external’ belief system.

And indeed I’m /fiercely/ loyal to them - with all my heart and mind.

One of these best mates is a devout Christian, another a ’devout acupuncturer‘. It’s /human beings/ I trust and distrust, not belief systems, nor science.

But I grant you that message boards are as unstable a basis as blind belief systems, so try not let either rule your ‘judgement‘. Still - lets say about 7 out of 10 for /effort/ (and /effort/ alone) from your unknowing, ‘external belief’ perspective.

You couldn’t never possibly /really/ try....

[piccione]

Hey, guy, forgot to say - your 'assessment' was much closer... with a few exceptions....../for example/, the 'childhood accident' was a severe illness....

The aunt was spot on though!

Ahhhh.....shame it wasn't /my/ assessment..... ;D

[piccione]

////Religion and astrology are both hog wash, unlike the new science of pizzology which has so far been proved to be 100% accurate.////

....and Sands - you're -of course- /quite right/! ;D

And long live pizzology!