i wonder if it's really Ella's birthday....

[Pink Betty]

....just incase,



have a happy day

[mathilde]

Was wondering that myself, Mel.

Ella, like the lady said, if it is your birthday, have a bloody good one, mate.

[Daz Madrigal]

Well I woudnt trust any birthday data..particularly mine, because the birth certificate was lost in a mysterious fire. Several people tended to be born on New Years Day which suggests that couldnt be arsed to bother, hence the large number who appear to be born on the rather unlikely date of New Yeard Day, 1900!

Which brings me to sime typical nonsense on the Crumblies about the problems an Astrologer would have with Stevan (childrens magician and inspiration for Derren Brown) birthday because apparently he doesnt know it.

Errm exactly how do you calculate a chart without a time let alone date of birth. Only the fatheads at the Cheese can answer that mystery.

It brought forth some interesting thoughts. One was the bluff perpetrated by Derren Brown which seems haved taken the majority of the public in but erm...not me. I've never been a fan of his and just see him as a pretty face for the girls.

We have to face facts here - MAGIC IS BORING!

Secondly, the way I got involved in Astrology - which always surprises people - is worth explaining. As just about the worlds most curmudgeounly cynic it would seem a bizarre and inconguous trait to possess. Especially for someone who refused even to go to R.E. lessons and avoids strange people in odd purple garments and large crosses like the plague.

However, the interest in not so much, astrology but more metaphysical works by Frawley, Guenon and Dane Rudhyar led me to believe in 'a something'.

...but there is no way I would have bothered without the pure facts and supporting evidence of my eyes.

[Daz Madrigal]

Wel if it is Ellas Birhtday..it occurs on Twelth Night. Apparently in previous times it was thought necessary to bake a Twelth Night Cake..and here it is



Now that along with a Birthday Cake will greatly please Mr. Ella Noize who is known for a prodigous appetite that would put the huge encumbrance (lump) known as Dirk Scorpio to shame.

So er...HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ELLA!!

[Pink Betty]

My theory is that people who don't hide their birthdays are more likely to use their real one.....I am not sure what this is based on.....it's probably a rubbish theory.

[Daz Madrigal]

You can hide birthdays?

Its bad enough putting that blasted inscutable code in..after 5 minutes wasted on that you just put down any nonsence. I hate this tripe about 'what was you first pets name?'. blah blah

No the trick by Derren Brown is that he isnt a mentalist. Its nonsense to think he's using some form of psychology. He's just doing very basic magic - as done by the equally tedious Paul Daniels - only he makes it 'seem' as if he's influencing the twerps he gets out of the audience.

A perfect example is the "Russian Roulettte trick". Its the oldest trick in the book..loads of magician can do it..Paul Daniels does it..it goes back centuries but he surrounds it with a load of guff and then spins it out into a two hour show of inutterable boredom.

..mind you like Blane and other 'street magicians'..they get paid for old rope.

[sandywinder]

Errm exactly how do you calculate a chart without a time let alone date of birth. Only the fatheads at the Cheese can answer that mystery.

You make the bloody nonsense up of course, mate.

I'm surprised you being taken in by this hocus-pocus.

If you like I'll bash you over the head for a bit and check the bumps on your head and predict you will have a headache very soon. ;D

[Daz Madrigal]

Well all will be explained in due time, Sandy, when I'm allowed to get a word in edgeways.

[sandywinder]

madrigalman said:

Well all will be explained in due time, Sandy, when I'm allowed to get a word in edgeways.

Not like you to bite your tongue Daz. ;D

[Daz Madrigal]

I was very unusual in spending well over a decade in trying to prove it wrong and confirm my underlying cynicism. Mind you its no use for those who have already made up their minds but thats the same for everyone.

If half a forum think voting BNP is a good idea then no amount of good sense imparted to make them in an effort to change their minds can possibly work but I can offer up a few reasons as to how I reached a conclusion to ignore the BNP. Thats all one can do. Beliefs as we know are firmly entrenched.

I'm a professional cynic..my entire world view errs on the side of complete scepticism of all beliefs. When Ruth Kelly is found out to be sending her children to Private School whilst telling the rest of us to do the opposite then it comes as no surprise to me at all. I expect lies and deception from everyone (incl. some astrologers).

But there a few tricks you can use to discover the truth.

First of all curiosity is aroused by the firm belief of Galileo, Da Vinci, Plato and Newton in the subject. These aren't men to be taken lightly. We may point at them as figures from the distant past - but pray tell me who there equals are today? Can anyone write like Shakespeare or paint like Da Vinci?

The second trick is to ignore trivia and everyday people and study human nature. There are always one or two people who stick out from the crowd or have some special ability for attracting some curiosity. Just as George Best or and Alex Higgins stand out from the boring monotony of their fellows. They dont have to be good or bad - just different! I dont go looking through charts nowadays but I can be wearily watching George Galloway stalking the Big Brother House and it attracts my interest. He like to look self important, he wants to be centre of attention, he stalks around the place like a caged lion puffing his huge cigar. I can tell immediately he'sa Leo.

..but heres the rub. Can I say the same for all the people ensconced with him? I'm afraid the answer is probably not. No-one has his distinctiveness. If you, Sandy now say I'm deluded. Then I answer that it happens everytime these rare occasions arise. Trouble is there arent many of these people around. If you are telling me that I'm being economical with the truth then I'll put my hand on the Bible and on my own life that I am telling the truth because I pride myself on being an honest person. Thats how I was brought up. If the reply is that I am lying or in some way kidding myself then I again say I am speaking honestly. If others say this isnt true then I can't call them fools because they dont know me - all I do know without any shadow of the doubt is that they are wrong and utterly misguided.

To continue a sadly brief precis into how it works..

Therefore I only ever concentrated on the most curious, offbeat, indivualistic and way out of people to recognise that they possessed the most complex charts and interesting charts to prevent boredom and torpor setting in. i.e its more fun reading Pr. Dianas chart than it is Pr. Annes. One has a certain charisma the other is rather ordinary in most respect.

..but it wasn't inspired by some silly new age belief - and there are millions who fall into that category (who should be ignored) - but from a constant comparison between the two sets.

i.e one would expect Adolf Hitlers chart to be rather more complex than a friend of a friend who works as a Civil Servant.

..aaaah but you have to take the trouble to learn it first to spot the glaring differences. How can you pronounce on a subject without knowing it (as Newton said to a scientist questioning his belief in Astrology).

If you think I take more note of the Fluff Freeman Home for unknown Showbiz Luvvies than I do for Da Vince, Plato and Newton then I'm afraid you are wholly wrong, Old Boy!

[sandywinder]

First of all curiosity is aroused by the firm belief of Galileo, Da Vinci, Plato and Newton in the subject. These aren't men to be taken lightly.

Well apart from Newton's belief in alchemy perhaps, and Plato's belief in examining the entrails of sacrificed animals, maybe. And apart from the fact they all believed in Gods.

As for people like Galloway I reckon you are going to be right at least once every twelve times. The other eleven you probably just ignore as people not being important enough. In other words you are fooling yourself. Subconsciously though, as I don't believe you are deliberately trying to con others.

But I will give you one good reason why your birthdate is irrelevant.

And that is that people are influenced to such a great extent by their upbringing and early experiences in life that nullify any innate characteristic.

So if you live in a dross housing estate you will probably be a totally different person to someone born with a silver spoon in one's mouth.

And two people born at exactly the same time are often completely different in character as well.

So it just does not make any sense at all to me. Sorry.

[Daz Madrigal]

<< But I will give you one good reason why your birthdate is irrelevant.

And that is that people are influenced to such a great extent by their upbringing and early experiences in life that nullify any innate characteristic. >>

Thats a nonsensical point, Sandy.

Why do you presuppose they are any more mutually exclusive than Nature v Nurture. Both exist hand in hand, Sandy.

ps. well the act of checking on Galloways chart takes some considerable trouble on my part and sits in open view on the computer disk, therefore the previous wrong conclusions exist only in your imagination.

As I say. If you've made up your mind its rare to change it. Its a sad fact but by ones mid-20's we tend to have set beliefs and a percect example is politics (something you at least know about!). Now you know only too well the sheer futility of changing the minds of Gus and Exco.

It would be optimistic to think that in one post you could persaude them to reply 'Y'know, Sandy..I think you've convinced me that voting UKIP is the most sensible option I shoud take in future. Please accept our apologies for being so stubborn as to not realise how stupid we both are'.

Love,

Gus and Exco

[Daz Madrigal]

<< Well apart from Newton's belief in alchemy perhaps >>

His library contained more books on Astrology than Alchemy. Not all alchemy was about turning iron into gold. In fact thats something of a myth. Alchemy isn't called the 'Father of Chemistry' for nothing, Sandy!

[sandywinder]

madrigalman said:

<< But I will give you one good reason why your birthdate is irrelevant.

And that is that people are influenced to such a great extent by their upbringing and early experiences in life that nullify any innate characteristic. >>

Thats a nonsensical point, Sandy.

Why do you presuppose they are any more mutually exclusive than Nature v Nurture. Both exist hand in hand, Sandy.

I don't presuppose they are I just know that upbringing IS a factor in character building, whereas I have no more evidence that birth date/time has any more grounds for influence than what they had to eat or what clothes they wore. In fact there is a possibility that these two are factors in the outcome of the developed adult so I perhaps shouldn't have used them for comparison.

It is not that I have just made up my mind either. It is just that I see no possible logic in it to make the vaguest possibility of any doubt.

I am far more likely to believe in Gus's Communism or LL's nationalisation policy than this astrology stuff. True their logic is pathetic but there is at least something tangible to argue about.

[gus2]

sandywinder said:

Errm exactly how do you calculate a chart without a time let alone date of birth. Only the fatheads at the Cheese can answer that mystery.

Talking of the cheese I see that exco has left the sinking ship. and please no rat jokes although I am talking about cheese ;D
I really hope he comes here and or the JSG, both boards are much more suited to excos talents than the deadbeats that wander about on the Cheese, there are exeptions of course and they to seem to wasting away in the wilderness.
Hell hathe no fury like a woman scorned eh mimi , I know you really really miss me so blow me a kiss or just blow me.

gus